Last Updated on April 25, 2015 by stevehoggbikefitting.com
G’day all,
Being a technoluddite by inclination, I’ve only just looked at the stats page for the blog and I see more people are interested in my scribblings than I suspected. So for all those interested in bike fitting, have a look at the video footage of an Ironman who shall remain nameless.
The question follows the 2 video clips below.
Please reply via the comments page and don’t be shy; there is no booby prize for being wrong and you have a 50% chance of being right. If you’re worried about being wrong (and you shouldn’t be), just comment as Anonymous. I’ll post the answer and explanation on Sunday 27th March in the Comments.
Which side has the 8mm shim fitted underneath the cleat, right or left?
Why do you think it is that side?
ANSWER IS NOW IN COMMENTS BELOW
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This Post Has 20 Comments
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I'm not very good at this, but I'll give it a shot. To my untrained eye, it looks like the LH side is more stable, and the RH side may be dropping a bit. So, I'm going to guess the shim is on the right.
Left side … looking at the vids it appears that his left knee gets a little higher in the stroke than the right.
Left, hip angle is slightly increased.? DD
for me it looks like he has the shim under the left cleat. the left foot looks more round, but the right like having a loop. 🙂
Mircea
(from Romania)
My perception is that the left side is more stable than the right. The left just looks smoother with less body, leg and hip sway. Is there any chance that my perception is skewed from the camera angles (which don't appear fixed) and/or the objects in the background? Left side video has more distractions/less white space? Right side video has sort of an upward view? Title of post is "trick question" so I'm also guessing that I'm completely and utterly wrong on all accounts!! Ha! Looking forward to next post! Thank you Steve!
Steve – I just wanted to clarify my last comment. I meant it was on the right because the hip was probably dropping more before the shim. Or, maybe it's on the left… Jason
I think the shim is on the right side because the guys pedaling style isnt as smooth on the right side as the left side. Hard to be sure but that is what it looks like to me. When do we find out whos right?
Wil
Hallo from Sweden. I like this bicycling blog. Lot of good information for bicyclist racers. I don't know which leg has the correction so I estimate the right leg because it not smooth as like left leg. I think so. Ironman is much comfort on his bike. Is he big name?
Keep writing please. Good information is not easy.
Per-ke Honberg
Steve – I posted above and now I want to change my answer. I cannot tell because by adding the shim it made him even – no difference so it is 50/50 as to which side is right.
steve, have you ever used valgus canting on a client, and if so under what circumstances?
steve, have you ever used valgus canting on a client and if so why?
I think it is on the right side. The right hip looks to be dropping and he looks to be favouring the left leg. My guess is years of just dropping the right leg and powering with the left. The left hip seems to be sitting higher and he drops his left heel more. The right foot is more 'toe down' (perhaps compensating for he shorter leg). If the 8mm lift is relatively new I would imagine his brain has not had a chance to register the changes.
Hi Steve,
I would say the Left side requires an 8mmm shim in order to allow the right leg to have a better reach on the downstroke and to even up the hips.
Hi Steve – I have watched these videos over and over and I still can't tell which side has the shims! JT
It looks like the right hip is dropping, meaning the shim should be on the left ??? This is hard, I would prefer questions on beer and The Bunnies (hint, more posts on these important topics).
JKeane
G'day all,
and thank you for your contributions. The final score is Right side = 5, Left side = 3, Don't know = 5, 1 comment that is so equivocal that I'm not sure what the answer was and 1 question about valgus wedging (which I'll answer below).
The 8mm shim is under the right foot. The gent in the footage is a good age grouper Ironman with a shorter right leg. In addition to the measurable LLD, he is slightly tighter in the right side glutes, hamstrings and hip flexors which adds a functional component to the LLD. And to those who noted it, he does have a slight right hip drop, so well done.
The reason for the title "Trick Question" is that as most of you found, if an athlete is reasonably functional as this gent is, and if an LLD is shimmed well (and more about that in Foot Correction part 3 – Shimming) then it shouldn't be blindingly obvious as to which side the shim is on. All cyclists appear differently from each side because while the bike is symmetrical in a positional sense, no human I have seen is perfectly symmetrical. What we need to be is as functionally symmetrical as possible so as to best interact with the bike. When necessary, shimming can move a cyclist closer to that ideal than would be the case without a shim.
In a sense, no one was wrong because it isn't obvious what the answer is.
Thank you all for your time and interest.
To the question about valgus wedging; yes I've done it, though it would be only several times a year. I see 6 – 800 people a year for positional tweaks or full fits, so in percentage terms, uncommon. What are the indications?
Tough one to answer as I don't use visual cues for determining cant of foot on pedal. As I've said a couple of times in these posts, I've found a way to quantify proprioceptive feedback from the feet. The method doesn't tell me when I'm close; only that I have it right or I have it wrong. In simple terms I try 1 medial wedge (what you would call varus), then 2, then 3 and so on until I get a result. If I haven't got result by the 5th wedge, I know it is not unknown, but statistically rare for the rider to need more (most need between 0 and 3 wedges), so I start again with wedge direction reversed. To sum up, the need to wedge with that orientation is uncommon and I've never needed to use more than 2 wedges in that fashion.
so, the right has the shim… hmmm…
i think you need to put even more shim to the right to make it more round like the left… joking 🙂
Mircea
Thank you for the answer… That was fun.
G'day Mircea,
Good point but what you see is the best compromise after exhaustive testing. I'll expand on this in Part 3 of Foot Correction.
G'day Jason,
you're welcome.
G'day Jason Keane,
what are you doing here?
I agree. More real beer and Rabbitohs posts needed. The Mighty Bunnies knocked over Parramatta last night for their first win of the season. Luke got KO'd stopping Moimoi scoring, Sandow KO'd Horo with a head clash and Inglis and Hulk Taylor killed 'em on the left side. Rhys Lightning pulled off the pass of the decade to put Inglis away, Asotasi seems to have his mojo back in defence and Stuart was strong. Still only 1 from 3 so got some work to do.
Beer?
Yeah, more reports coming. Murrays Anniversary Ale 5 is selling at Steve's Cool Booze for 20% less than the ex brewery price. Pick some up while it lasts.