Last Updated on September 5, 2013 by Steve Hogg
Firstly, the pic above has nothing to do with this post, it is just a pic of a rider I know, Ben Dyball, during the Mt Hotham stage of the Tour of Bright. Ben won the stage. The pic was taken by Victorian photographer and keen cyclist, Tony Reeckman. Posts without pics can be boring and for reasons that will become obvious below, I don’t have any pics to go with this post. So here’s a pic and a thank you to Tony for permission to use it..
I had an interesting fit a few weeks back and have only just heard back from the rider. No name because his team numbers a bike fitting system as one of their sponsors. No name is a young pro rider who’s form hasn’t been great this year. Anyway, the team had sent him to various people and institutions for a ‘fix’ and apparently the consensus resulting from this exercise was –
- Short left leg
- Power / torque deficit in the left leg with the difference being something like Left leg 46% / Right leg 54% at AT with the disparity increasing during shorter, more intense efforts. When really fatiguing, Left low 40’s % / Right high 50’s %.
No name performs okay, but when the pressure is on, he struggles and gets sundry aches and pains including:
Right knee patellar tendinitis
Lower back pain emanating from the left sacroiliac joint
Left side ITB niggles and irritations
Left hamstring origin tendinitis
and so on.
There was a difference in opinion about the best way to tackle the problem. Each of the 3 centres No name had visited took a different approach. Succinctly, they were:
1. Major position changes / cleats moved forward to ball of the foot over the pedal axle / a shim placed under the left foot
2. Minor position changes / cleats moved forward to ball of foot over the pedal axle / a shim placed under the left foot
3. Minor position changes / left cleat moved forward to ball of the foot over pedal axle while right cleat moved backwards in comparison, so that relative to foot in shoe, the right cleat was 9mm further back.
In each case, there had been a brief improvement in No name’s comfort and equality of power production between legs, but the situation deteriorated quickly leading him to change his position back to his original settings each time, or close to it. Then the process of endless fiddling would start again in an effort to find a workable solution.
No name’s opinion of the ‘fixes’ were:
No.1 = poor general position / poor cleat position / shim under left shoe felt terrible.
No.2 = good general position / poor cleat position / shim under left shoe felt terrible
No. 3 = good general position / cleat position felt terrible on left leg / power disparity worst of the 3.
When I saw No name, he was using more or less position 2 but with cleats moved all the way back on both shoes. He said this was close to his original position but slightly better. The effective cleat position of centre of ball of the foot 10mm in front of pedal axle on the left and 12mm in front of the pedal axle on the right for size 44 shoes as measured with shoe levelled between where sole joins upper at mid heel and where sole joins upper under fore and aft mid point of cleat mounting holes.
So after a detailed interview, the off the bike rider assessment started. Quite flexible generally, slightly tighter on the right side, minor degree of left cerebellum motor control dominance (right side of body) and best of all, a SHORTER RIGHT LEG!! Not the left leg that had been repeatedly identified as shorter and shimmed on and off for some time!
And a well hidden short right leg at that. On the bike it was more obvious. No name leant slightly to the right to ‘protect’ the shorter right leg, dropping his right hip and rolling it forward a touch on each right side pedal down stroke.
If No name had been a weekend warrior, his aches and pains may have been less severe, all other things being equal, but he has to use his body really hard to earn a living on the bike. The slight forward twist of the pelvis under load on the right side was putting posterior pressure on the left sacroiliac joint which = pain. A seat height about 5mm too high was exacerbating the problem of an LLD that No name was subconsciously protecting at all costs. The twist / tilt to the right challenged the plane of movement of the left hip and was the source of the left side ITB pain. When really going hard, the hip drop on the right side increased, forcing the already overextended longer left leg to extend even further to reach the pedal = the left side hamstring tendinitis at point of hamstrings origin, the ischial tuberosity. The only possible reason that I could see for the right side knee tendinitis (patellar tendon) was that the right leg was doing more than it’s fair share of work.
Solution: Moderate position changes: Seat dropped 5mm / stem length shortened by 10mm / angle of bars changed / brake hood position altered a touch.
Large changes to the feet though. A 4mm shim under the right cleat / left cleat position of plus 10mm (centre of ball of foot 10mm in front of centre of pedal axle) / right cleat position of plus 9mm / eSoles with blue arch support module in left shoe and black arch support module in right shoe / 1 heel wedge on the right side and 2 heel wedges on the left side.
No name now tells me that the aches and pains have disappeared or reduced to insignificant levels and that his power balance between left and right is close to even and under really high loads, improves slightly to a fraction off 50/50.
Regular readers will know that I am always banging on about functional symmetry. The story above illustrates why. None of us are ever going to be perfectly symmetrical, but to best interact with a bike, we need to be as close as possible. I suppose the moral of this story if there is one is in many (not all) cases, a problem of pain or discomfort on one side can have its root cause on the other side. Ultimately No name was a simple fit problem well disguised. The longer I am in this game, the more that I find that the worse the tale of woe, often the simpler the solution. Not always, just a lot.
How had 3 different attempts at fitting No name wrongly identified a short left leg?
I don’t know because I haven’t spoken to anyone concerned, but to be fair to them, before No name got on the bike, the way that he presented nearly had me thinking he had a short left leg too. On the bike was a different story; the right leg was obviously shorter. I assume the 3 previous fitters had all noted the left leg overextending and this had confirmed their assessment of the ‘shorter’ left leg. I further assume no one had looked at No name from the rear while on the bike. If anyone had, it would been obvious what the story was. Small leg length discrepancies like No name’s can be notoriously hard to accurately determine. The best way is to ‘ask’ the subject’s CNS the question off the bike and to see what the pelvis is doing on the bike. Functional pelvic asymmetries that occur on a bike, no matter what the cause, cause a ripple of compensations and sub compensations to flow outward to the periphery. This is what makes the rear view of what the pelvis is doing so important.
Note: Many more riders drop their right hip or sit with pelvis twisted forward on the right than do the left side equivalent. Please don’t think that bit of info necessarily means a shorter right leg. In this case it did, in many cases it does not. It means an inherent bias towards ‘protecting’ the right side over the left, which can be seen in something like 90% of the cycling population, at some level, great or small.
COMFORT + EFFICIENCY = PERFORMANCE
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Comments (28)
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wow… 'no name' being a pro rider, having done a bike fitting in 3 centers, and still choosing the wrong leg as being short??? what can we expect for us amateur/regular riders?!…
i wrote you an 'hello' email. i hope you got it. after that i want to discuss with you something about pelvis tilt. ciao,
Mircea
G'day Mircea,
Yes, No name was a tricky one. The problem with getting a viable solution with difficult fit problems is that the happy customers only refer other difficult ones!! So I get lots of practice. No name wasn't a tough one, though I almost fell into the same trap that the fitters had. It wouldn't have mattered if I had mistaken which was the shorter leg because what he was doing on bike would have made me reassess a my judgement. I can only assume no one looked at the most important (but not the only important) view; that is from behind and above. I'll post on this subject soon.
What is it that you would like to talk about regarding pelvic tilt?
I got your email and replied. The blog is my preference for answering questions though, as some of time, the discussion benefits others.
G'night Steve 🙂 (here 1:30am)
I agree, it's good when we all benefits from discussions. Now, where should i write something that for the moment i can't found it in a topic, like pelvic placement, front-back tilt of it? Or, can i write it here and after that you can place it where you think it fits better?
G'day Mircea,
It is early days yet and so there are years of topics to cover. I have had one request for a post on road pedal systems and will get to that in the near future. Please tell me what you would like a post on and I'll attempt it too.
G'day Steve,
i don't know the best title for what i want to write, maybe Pelvis-Placement into the body riding locomotion, something like that. i'll write here, and after you can place it wherever fits better. thanks!
——-
Everybody's speaking about sitting on seat bones, but looking at the pro riding i see that almost all of them, most of the time, they sit on the perineum . And for TimeTrial looks like all of them sit on the perineum. This is what i see and i do not understand. Also for myself, when i ride my bike, i feel like if i want to push harder then i had to sit on the prineum. I asked once a woman pro rider about that and she reply "no, we all sit on our seat bones". I am not convinced, my eyes tell me something else. I am so confused!…
For me it looks like you can stay three ways on the saddle:
1) only on the seat bones. maybe slightly touching with your perineum (pubic bone);
2) on the seat bones and the perineum (pubic bone), like a 3 point platform;
3) only on the perineum (pubic bone).
When we stand vertical on our legs, in a biped position, our pelvis has the seat bones a little down from the pubic bone. Some more, some less. From outside, just from aesthetic point of view, i think most people like when the seat bones are placed high (but this is something else). But now, here, i want to talk only about locomotion, physical, practical point of view. So looking from profile/side, we can draw a virtual line between seat bones and pubic bone (it is more like an arch). This virtual line would raise in front of the pelvis and would droop in the back of it. So this line will not be perpendicular with the vertical, but at an angle. Now, sitting on a saddle, because we want our pelvis to sit on our seat bones (maybe slightly touching the perineum/pubic bone) and to tilt forward, this virtual line would be very close to horizontal. If we tilt the pelvis more then we will touch hardly our perineum (pubic bone). My ideea is that the more your seat bones are lower on your pelvis, the more your pelvis will be tilted forward (assuming we sit mostly on our seat bones). I think this is an advantage because you can work better your glutes. People who have high seat bones on their pelvis must sit on their perineum (pubic bone) for having the same pelvis tilt (angle). Otherwise said, one with lower seat bones will have a flatter lower back when sitting on a saddle, but one with high seat bone will have a curved lower back (which leads to some pain, i think); so, for having the same flatter shape the one with high seat bones will, again, tilt more but he will sit mostly on the perineum (pubic bone). These are my opinions from what i see around and what i feel.
I would like to know what do you think about this placement of the pelvis, about this relation/transition between seat bones and pubic bone? I hope you understand my english (it's not my language), the terms i used 🙂
Also, what should happened when you move your hands form brake hoods to drops on a road bar? Does your pelvis move/tilt a little bit, or it should stay in the same position and only the spine would arch more?
I like a lot Fabian Cancellara. For me it looks like, compared to the others, he use more his glutes. He is very stable on his bike, his lower back looks quite flat (very little arch), and his legs (knees) realy look like pistons. I think this has to do with his pelvis being more tilted compared to the others. But to perform with this pelvis tilt, you should be realy flexible in the hip joint and in the hamstring muscle, which i heard that Cancellara is. He use quite a lot of saddle setback, now on his bike he has: 73° seat angle, 20mm offset seat post, and his saddle maximum back. Now, if this is the case, how to achieve this pelvis tilt but still being comfortable?… i do not know.
G'day Mircea,
Great question!!! and a subject of interest to me as a bike fitter. I have a few posts in the pipeline and will add this one to them. I can't promise an exact date but it will be in the next month or two. Thank you.
G'night Steve (4:39am),
great! thank you!
regards,
Mircea
Servus Steve,
just ran into your fabulous blogspot. Reading your No name-report it tickeled my curiosity how bike fitters determine a LLD(leg length discrepancy)?
To me it seems this may be the key to the different results in diagnosis, right?
Keep your good work up,
Götz
Servus to you Gotz,
and good to hear from you. I don’t think the problem in No name’s case was in how to measure an LLD. Small LLD’s are notoriously hard to accurately measure externally. I find that my method correlates with well taken X rays 90% of the time only, and that this is about as good a strike rate as anyone gets. So I am wary of accepting that any assumption I make about an LLD is necessarily correct. How the rider functions on the bike combined with the knowledge gained from an off the bike assessment almost always answers the questions of “what is the best solution and which (if any) is the short leg”
I think more that in No name’s case, the previous attempts at fitting him had been by indirect observation using technology, rather than someone with a trained eye seeing what was really going on.
Indirect observation by video or motion capture is fine and can be a handy tool but too many people using these systems never outgrow the technology. So instead of being an advantage, indirect observation technology too often becomes a ‘crutch; that the fitter never learns to ‘walk’ without.
A human eye has many times better resolution than a motion or video capture system but needs a lot of practice to accurately interpret what it sees. This practice is hard to come by if using indirect observation technology as the prime visual assessment tool. Better to use it as an adjunct only. At least at the current stage of development. Who knows what the future will bring?
Having met with you in Sydney, Steve, I have absolutely no doubt that you know how to determine a LLD. Also I fully agree that the eye of someone rally skilled to the art detects more on a living creature than people biased by theory and training.
Therefore, my comment was merely directed to Mircea’s uproar to your intro (“3 bike fitting centres and still choosing the wrong leg as being short?”).
Please tell me wrong, but to my humble experience out of 25+ years in the medical branch where I enjoyed visiting 6 out of 7 continents of this planet (including NZ) only 1 out of 100 cases presented a r e a l LLD of more than 2mms. In these cases patients could produce evidence starting from fractures over hip-/knee-joint deformations ending with fading cartilage and, very rare, genetic or growth problems.
Everyone else I met at least, presented a f u n c t i o n a l LLD. As you say, a defective movement pattern, which or due to avoidance of pain or due to months and years of wrong habituation leads to complaints and visible malfunction. These cases could be treated either with different cleat positions (poor), with shims (very intriguing in the beginning), with bone/muscle re-alignment or best, using a combined technique which takes advantage of the various skills.
As a rule of thumb, those whose tibias are equal in length while lying on a bench, lower legs standing upright as well as those who measure no difference while sitting on a bench measuring from the most prominent part of the trochanter down to the lateral epicondile want
f u n c t i o n a l correction whereas those who relate to the small group of crippled would need mechanical assistance in order to minimize their ailments.
Note that my observations are of course biased as medical therapists mainly get to see those with problems whereas the majority of healthy people feels no need to contact anyone skilled to this art instead is keen to obtain advice on how to improve efficiency on the bike only.
Should the audience of this blogspot feel the need for visual clarification, with Steve’s approval a couple of images could be published which show hard facts rather than poor guesswork.
G’day Gotz,
I agree though I don’t know the percentages as many people
don’t ever have an x ray or scan. I see a lot of LLD’s whether functional or
measurable. Like you, the nature of my biz means that I see skewed sample as
most people who come to us have a problem at some level, otherwise they
would not be seeking help.
I also agree it is better to solve the root cause problem than place a
metaphorical band aid on it. The thing that I find though, is that while
motivated clients are seeking the facts via X ray or scan, they need a
solution now, which is where shims etc come in. There is a larger number who
want a band aid, but an effective one.
I think the right solution is the one what works. Sometimes there are
several ‘right’ solutions and only time, experimentation and the clients
willingness to explore will determine whether one is more ‘right’ than
another.
Gotz, if anyone requests them, I’m happy to post any images you care to send
to illustrate your points. The entire purpose of this blog is to provide
empirically tested information.
Steve, I have asked a few questions before, I have a 10mm shorter right femur yet I sit on the saddle with my left sit bone further forward. What are
some ways to fix this? I do alot of stretching already because my right side was really tight, and I also use a 5mm shim on the right side. Just don’t know how to get straight on the saddle.
G’day Matt,
A tough one. You’ve spent a large part of your life training
your shorter left leg to ‘keep up’ with your right leg and now your ‘normal’
function is with pelvis twisted to the left. There are several ways you can
approach this and I think they are all worth a try.
*Off the bike*
You will need to find a really good manipulative health professional;
chiropractor, manipulative physiotherapist or ostepath. And I don’t mean run
of the mill. Really good. They should be able to help. You can also find a
Feldenkrais teacher. I’ve seen Feldenkrais stuff work near miracles with
some. Click on this link
*On the bike*
You need to compensate for the difference in ‘effective’ leg length and I
think we’ve spoken about that before. Correct me if I am wrong. You also
need to have a reference point so that you are aware of what on seat
symmetry is. Basically you need to fit something that gives you a constant
reference as to whether you are straight on not. I have recently had a
serious computer malfunction and have lost a lot of pics so I can’t show you
what I mean. I did tell Paul Swift about this some time ago and here’s a link
to some pics
he took of what I’m talking about
Hey Steve! Just would like to say this is a great resource and I know I really appreciate you taking time to throughly explain the reason behind what you believe, instead of just saying its the right way!
I actually found your blog because of a Leg length issue that I, through self diagnosis found to be the cause of lower back pain on my left side during intense workouts and races. After reading this blog I tried a couple things, including your leg length shim on my right foot (shorter leg)with the cleat closer to the toe and my right cleat a bit further back. To my surprise, my last 3 workouts my back has not flared up like it did before and I couldn’t be happier… unfortunately now my knees are killing me, which has never been an issue before. I’ve played with saddle height a bit with little success. Do I just need to get my saddle height nailed down because after putting the shim in and moving cleats, proper saddle height has changed? Is their something else I should be looking for? Thanks in advance!
G’day Josh,
Good to meet you and happy that some of our shims have made it
all the way to Alaska. As to seat height and your knees (assuming seat
height is the problem); use the search box on the top right hand corner of
the page where it says “enter keyword”. Put ‘seat height’ in there and you
will see several posts. Use the method explained there. If that doesn’t
solve the problem, please get back to me.
Steve,
I really love the blog! As I read this post I found my self wanting to clarify what you mean by pelvis rotated or “twisted” to the right. Are you referring to the pubic symphasis rotated to the right and the ischial tuberosity to the left on the saddle along a transverse axis or the entire pelvis just shifted off to the right? Seems either one would bring the left leg closer to the top tube and thus creating an over-stretched appearance and feel. As you know I have a short right leg (8mm) and I ride with my pelvis rotated to the right as described above and have that over stretched feeling on the right with associated low back, glut, ITB, Knee pain (maybe more shim?) Ironically, I worked with a client yesterday who had a significantly shorter left leg from an old hip fracture and he rode way shifted off to the right of the saddle which I was not expecting. Do see clients shifting to the opposite side of the saddle from the short leg as he does? Thanks for the clarification in advance and keep up with the great posts.
Tim Holder PT
G’day Tim,
By pelvis “twisted to the right” I mean the former, though I
see a number of people who sit off centre to one side with or without a
twist. Have a look at the post “The Right Side Bias” for video examples of
riders sitting twisted.
Re the ones who sit off the centre line of the seat by any real degree. They
are not as common but are out there. I had some really good pics of a gent
who sat like that have since been lost with a major computer malfunction.
However, if you click on Publications, then Newsletters and to the August
2010 Newsletter and once there, scroll down to Interesting Fit Problem, you
will see the pics plus solution.
Re your own issues; Tim, sooner or later you and I are going to be in the
same place at the same time and I would be interested to see what is going
on with you. I know you’re a physio but have you considered whether dural
torque is playing a part in your problems?
I probably should have mentioned this before.
Re fit clients with a short leg who sit over to the side opposite the short
leg; yes, not often but they are ALWAYS a challenge.
Steve,
Thanks for the clarification and I will check out the August 10 newsletter for the case on the side shifters. I had to look up the term Dural Torque so no I have not considered it’s possible involvement. However, I think you know of my cancer history and part of the treatment was multiple lumbar punctures with release of chemotherapy in to my CSF. I was left with some menigeal irritation afterwards which has now resolved. I have been suspicious of the dura being scarred from the process especially since my cycling problems are only present with increasing forward flexion ( such as lowering the bars or periods of time in the drops). I hope we do get the opportunity to meet up as I feel like I am shooting at a moving target. Thanks again Steve.
Tim
G’day Tim,
Interesting. I didn’t know about the lumbar punctures. I’ll
contact you privately
Steve,
I noticed you’ve mentioned this a few times,
Re fit clients with a short leg who sit over to the side opposite the short
leg; yes, not often but they are ALWAYS a challenge.
Can you explain further, or, what is the first thing you try to tackle with these clients?
I’ve shimmed (as you may recall) the shorter leg (right) by 6 mm, but I’m still sitting off to the left and dropping my left heel!
Thanks,
G’day Elitestrong,
Riders with a short leg who off the centre line and over to the side of the
longer leg are always a challenge because they are they increasing the
distance that the already over extended shorter leg has to reach.
Compensation mechanisms can be funny things. If you get 20 people with the
same issue, you will find 20 different ways of compensating. Most will be
doing more or less the same thing though there will be differences of degree
but there will be one or two that I look at and think “How did they possibly
come up with that”?
Sitting off centre to the side opposite a short leg fits in to that
category. You have read enough of this site to know that I feel that neural
function is paramount when it comes to bikefitting. If someone’s awareness
of sitting over the centre line of the seat is so skewed that they are
hammering the already shorter leg, that is a challenge to try and resolve.
There are several ways a fitter can approach it.
1. Throw hands in the air and say “I’ve done my best, you’re the problem”
……………….which funnily enough is true, but I don’t like giving up
until every possibility is exhausted.
2. Manufacture what I call a ‘Bio Feedback Device’. Have a look at the
Publications tab; click on Past Newsletters; click on August 2010 and then
scroll down to “Interesting Fitting Problem” to see what a BFD is about. The
gent in the pics wasn’t sitting off centre to the side of the long leg, but
as is more common, to the side of the short leg. However he had been riding
A grade (Cat 1) for 18 years like that without compensation so the
asymmetric style of sitting on a bike was well embedded. When I shimmed the
shorter leg, all he did was extend it even less while still sitting off
centre. So he needed a reference point to know where ‘on centre’ was. The
BFD provided that. This has worked for clients of mine who have had the
patience to use a BFD for as long as it too to reeducate their CNS as to
what ‘centred’ is. I have mentioned BFD to Paul Swift and others and their
feedback is also that they are effective in most cases of this type.
3. When all else fails………use an American Classic J post (assuming that
the frame will take a round section seat post). J posts can be tilt the seat
6 – 7 degrees in either direction. In the case we are talking about, short
leg who hangs towards the long leg; tilt the J post up on the long legged
side. The rider will still attempt to drop the hip of the long legged side,
but if done correctly, the seat tilt prevents them dropping the hip of the
long legged side below horizontal. Then the fitter can get on with
determining how large a shim to place under the foot of the short legged
side.
In all 3 cases, I would on send the rider to a GOOD Manipulative Physio,
Osteopath or Chiropractor. What I have outlined in 2 and 3 can be quality
‘band aids’ but the 100% fix lies off the bike.
An amusing anecdote, coming from our own epicenter of the cycling universe (Boulder,Colo).
After years of recreational riding with my basic fit, my wife was “professionally” fit when she upgraded to a nicer bike; after becoming ever more zealous and doing more longer brevet rides, she had a second fit, which did very minor tweaks such as a 1/8″ seat rotation from in-line straight. After a couple years she felt she deserved the best, so (living in Boulder, Colo) indulged in the mid-level fit at the WORLD’S Most Famous Center (w/out the head guru himself doing the fitting, however). Immediately a whole slew of more significant changes were made, and almost immediately she began to have problems on the bike; knees, hips, hands, neck, you name it. One by one, after additional consults with others at that Center, we more or less undid every single change except for maintaining a higher stem (and of course no refund). Just as quickly, most of the sudden onset maladies resolved. Moral: the original two fitters used essentially a variation on your visual approach, with results too good to believe, and the hi-tech gurus basically screwed it all up. I know they’re highly regarded, but others have described funny issues with advice there as well.
Another “True Myth” about making major fitting changes gradually makes as much sense to me as removing an arrow from your chest only 1/2″ at a time; if you are using a potentially damaging position, it should be completely rectified asap, followed by a recouperative transition phase to adjust. Anything else is simply compounding damage at a nominally lesser rate.
G’day Anonymous,
I’ve had a number of clients come over from Boulder
(which is a LONG way) and have heard similar stories to yours. The place you
speak of is seemingly held in high regard EXCEPT by the people who know them
best, the locals. Which reinforces to me that technology in bike fitting is
no substitute for competence.
I had an email recently from a gent I know in the U.S. who was one of the
very first customers f a well known hi tech bike fitting ‘tool’. He tells
me that he had a minor epiphany early last year, embarked on a several
courses that further educated him in human movement patterns and feels he is
now performing his fittings to a much higher standard because he is no
longer limiting himself to what the ‘tooling’ tells him, which when all is
said and done is much less than a quality bike fitter will see after 30
seconds of checking the subject from various perspectives.
But technology sells……………….. and markets well to those
susceptible to it. Pick the fitter, not the brand of tooling they use.
You’re absolutely right with the arrow analogy, providing the rider is
sensible with their training for several weeks post fit.
Since I came forward with this midfoot-cleat position idea and shoes where it is posible to mount them properly I witnessed so many clients who pulled the arrow straight away rather than ‘adapting’ to a new position step by step.
Reason: When you change a position you switch from one moving pattern to another, a new one. This also means that you enlist new muscles to the chain or at least emphasize on other groups of muscles to carry out the work. In these cases step-by-step is simply impossible because it will wear out two muscle groups at a time – those who have to stop contracting and those who have to take over the work load.
My advice: spit the dummy and see what happens. If after a week there’s no notable improvement you’re either on the wrong path or didn’t apply what you were told to the degree necessary.
G’day Gotz,
I couldn’t agree more.
Hello Gotz,
I would love to try a midfoot cleat position but it’s a very large investment to make on something that might or might not work (i have some interesting issues, which i’m working with steve on, and midfoot cleat might potentially help or make things much worse).
i only know of your shoes and one other brand that drills at the arch. both very high end. what is your recommendation for someone who wants to “try it out” but isn’t sure it will work?
what is the return policy on your shoes? i would not expect one due to the custom nature of your shoes…
thank you.
eric johnson
Hello Eric,
for more than a decade biomac applies the current rules of internet trading which are full money back guarantee within 14 days if not content and shoes without damage.
Apart from that and Aussie feet there is just a small minority of customers who really need custom shoes. Everyone else is fine with what we have in stock.
Determine total length and width of each foot while standing on it and
hand it in and I will see what I can do, the time frame and the costs involved.
Learning that you work with Steve on your postural issues ask him what he thinks may be appropriate for you.
Götz
hello gotz,
sorry for the delay on this. please feel free to email me at ericj076ATgmail.com
right foot: 275mm long. 115mm wide if we look at widest part of foot to widest part of foot (which are the 1st and 5th MPT’s)
left foot: 272mm long, 116mm widest part of foot to widest part of foot.
is that sufficient? thank you.